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In response to a post earlier today analogizing 2012 US hot temperature records with the East German women Olympic swimmers on steroids, a frequent commentator and interlocutor had some thoughts about what is ‘appropriate’ behavior for ones who are aware of how serious the situation is when it comes to mounting catastrophic climate chaos. Note that NNadir, whose tag line is “ignorance kills“, is (a) extremely knowledgeable, (b) extremely passionate, (c) an extremely strong advocate for nuclear power, (d) a parent like myself, and (e) terrified (or stoic) about climate chaos’ implications for humanity, the United States, and his children. Not all of our interactions have been genial or necessarily (emotionally) rewarding for (either of) us, but value rarely comes from unanimity or perfect harmony.

Sparking me to turn this interaction into a post were two interrelated comments.

One thing I like about you Adam is that you never stop hoping that someone will care, even after it’s much too late for anything meaningful to be done.

Truthful, perhaps, on multiple levels. Yet, as I responded to him,

“Anything meaningful …” We have what any sane person would define as catastrophic impacts already apparent. And, as we both know, these will get worse. I retain some ‘hope’ that we can act to impact (reduce) how much “worse” the situation will get.

NNadir responded with a metaphorical differentiation of our approaches to climate chaos.

we’re both on the Titanic, and you’re trying to organize the lifeboats, and I’m listening to the beautiful rendition of “Nearer my God to thee.”

The most appropriate response that I can consider is actually the tag line of the only other commentator in the thread, The Fan Man:

Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther

I am planting apple trees — that will, I hope, bear some fruit for my and others’ children for generations to come.

While there are those ordering full speed ahead even as climate chaos’ iceberg crushes into the metaphorical Titantic‘s hull, for those in the reality-based world the question becomes: which is the right response?

The relevant parts of this exchange follow after the fold.

NNadir

What I find interesting is that grain crops are collapsing not only in the American midwest, but parts of Europe as well.

From where I sit, no one is paying attention.

The media couldn’t care less, probably because Americans couldn’t care less.

We are so numb that we couldn’t care less where our food comes from.

Maybe we’ll all have famine advertised as a wonderful weight loss program.

As for getting Americans (or anyone else) to care or do something, let me quote General Sherman in another context: “You may as well appeal against a thunderstorm!”

One thing I like about you Adam is that you never stop hoping that someone will care, even after it’s much too late for anything meaningful to be done.

The technical and financial effort required to do even trivial things would be enormous, and still we have to ask people to stop thinking about the Olympics for 20 minutes.

If, at this point, you still have to beg people to look away from the Olympics to care that the world food supply is obviously under threat, how optimistic are you, seriously?

A Siegel

Optimism?

1. As with you, with kids, how can we abandon hope — even if for ameliorating the damage?

2. “Anything meaningful …” We have what any sane person would define as catastrophic impacts already apparent. And, as we both know, these will get worse. I retain (back to point 1) some ‘hope’ that we can act to impact (reduce) how much “worse” the situation will get.

NNadir

My kids are becoming men. The oldest will be off to college within two years. My youngest will be finishing junior high this year.

I have apologized to them as often as I can for what my generation has done to them, but anything that remains will fall to them.

What can I say or do for them at this point? Give them internet links to what Greenpeace says they can do by 2090? They already know it’s absurd.

I may have used this image before in a conversation with you, and I apologize if this scrapes up against Godwin’s law, but when I speak to my sons about this, I am trying to be more and more like that man I read of somewhere who when bringing his children to the pits at Babi Yar, kept pointing to the birds, the trees, and the skies and remarking on how beautiful each of these was.

A few weeks ago, I took my oldest boy to the Museum of Modern Art. We remarked on how beautiful so many of the paintings were.

I have personally come to the conclusion – I and think you may appreciate that I have studied the situation seriously and in many places on the deepest level that my abilities allowed – that the situation will be managed by catastrophe.

I don’t really believe that there are, or ever will be, enough windmills and solar cells or electric cars or even (what may have been more realistic when there was still time) nuclear power plants to save very much.

We’ve had grain crop collapses on every continent where grain grows in the last 10 years, in Russia, in Australia, in France, North America, South America. How many electric cars and whatever would it take to prevent all of the crops collapsing at the same time at some point in the next decade?

To mix metaphors, we’re both on the Titanic, and you’re trying to organize the lifeboats, and I’m listening to the beautiful rendition of “Nearer my God to thee.”

I’d remark on how beautiful the trees are around here, except that so many have already died and so many others are obviously dying.